UK insurance is a mess

"4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30" (4muddyfeet) 01/29/2015 at 06:21 • Filed to: None

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I've recently been looking for a compliment to Scuderia Rotto in the shape of a sub-£1k Peugeot 406 HDi estate, a car certainly not known for it's speed or general time attack prowess, for occasional use and comfortable long distance trips. But the insurance cost on such a car, even at £1000 with only 110bhp, just doesn't make sense to me at all.

I'm 28, have been driving for 11 years with no incidents, claims or speeding tickets, I live in a nice neighbourhood with extremely low car crime, and yet the best price from a proper insurance company is £423 with £200 excess. So; £423 insurance, £180 road tax, and £40 MOT per annum means that my £1000 vehicle will be costing me a cool £643 a year before I have to maintain it or put diesel in it. Seriously though, 65% of the vehicles total cost just to run it for 1 year? I'd be better off taking the bus.

Goddamnit I just want a cheap and reliable estate car!

NB: I should mention that I have three cars OTR already, a LR Series, LR Defender, and an Alfa GT, which only cost me £1180 in insurance combined. So £423 extra for a vehicle that will get more minimal use is a bit silly.

Sorry. /rant

pip bip - choose Corrour > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 01/29/2015 at 06:25

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don't bother with insurance then , problem solved.

4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 > pip bip - choose Corrour 01/29/2015 at 06:29

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or a £1210 fine, plus seizure of the vehicle with £250 costs to retreive it.

Anima > pip bip - choose Corrour 01/29/2015 at 06:29

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I don't think you understand how ' not America' works..

pip bip - choose Corrour > Anima 01/29/2015 at 06:32

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here in Australia you don't need to have insurance.

pip bip - choose Corrour > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 01/29/2015 at 06:36

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just get 'bomb' insurance/third party only.

or is that a no-no?

Anima > pip bip - choose Corrour 01/29/2015 at 06:39

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Ah, explains a lot. In (as far as I know all of ) Europe it's illegal to drive without insurance on public roads. Something to do with less of the vast emptiness thing I assume. ;)

pip bip - choose Corrour > Anima 01/29/2015 at 06:41

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"vast emptiness" yeah right !

try telling that to all the kangaroos!

THEY can do some damage!

Cé hé sin > Anima 01/29/2015 at 06:43

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It's very illegal and you can do time for it. You have to have unlimited third party cover unlike say America where you only need limited cover.

Svend > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 01/29/2015 at 06:45

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Or sign a form to release the vehicle and have it crushed.

Ye', best keep it legal. Have you tried the likes of NFU?

I'm on a detailing forum and there is an independent Insurance Broker based in Swindon on there who are part of Coversure Group you could try. They always get good feedback and insure.

http://www.coversure.co.uk/office/swindon…

Give them a bell 0800 308 1408.

I don't use them myself as my insurance came with the car and bank.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 01/29/2015 at 06:46

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That doesnt seem too bad. These are my annual Tax and Insurance costs per annum (American Dollars converted to British Pounds for your convenience):

Insurance: £38.20 per month or £458.40 per year

Annual Emissions and Safety testing: £16.53

Registration and Annual Taxes: £84.96

Coming to an Annual Total of: £559.89

I also drive a cheap car, a 1993 Ford Ranger XLT RWD:

I payed £1984.18 for it when I bought it.

Cé hé sin > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 01/29/2015 at 06:47

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£180 road tax? I pay €710 for an FTO.

Anima > pip bip - choose Corrour 01/29/2015 at 06:47

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Haha, but that's why all of your cars look like this* right?

*ute version available at the dealership

pip bip - choose Corrour > Anima 01/29/2015 at 06:51

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yep! LOL ;)

Cé hé sin > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 01/29/2015 at 06:51

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Just looked up what it would cost to tax that thing in Ireland: €1,809. You wouldn't get an insurance quote for a vehicle that size if you're still young enough to be in education.

p33t - wagons 4 lyfe > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 01/29/2015 at 06:52

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When i emigrated to NZ I really noticed the difference in costs. I was paying a bit over 1k for third party on a '96 Fiat Cinquecento (all 1100cc of fury!!) at age 21 in a nice part of Surrey.

Came here and got a third party quote on a R32 Skyline (just the RB25, no turbo, but still.... R32 Skyline!)

After the nice lady at the counter sucked through her teeth and warned me it was gonna be a lot she gave me the figure of 120gbp per annum for Third party. With me pretty much same age, in a similarly nice area of Auckland, though now with 0 years no claims bonus as I was still on my UK licence.

Stunned I was. I think its because its mandatory in the UK, they can get away with charging what they like. Also people over there will claim on anything BECAUSE its so expensive where as here people will usually just give the dude/dudette they hit some cash and move on.

I will say though, thanks to the insurance prices cars in the UK are incredibly cheap!

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Cé hé sin 01/29/2015 at 06:57

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Yikes! Thats nearly what I payed for the thing. No wonder europe's roads are mostly filled with cars newer than 10 years. Outside of a Ferrari, It makes no sense! Still, he's griping about a pretty decent price.

KnowsAboutCars > Cé hé sin 01/29/2015 at 07:02

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What if you are in your early 20's and have a job that requires owning mid-size/big pickup or van. Would you be able to get your car insured in that situation or would you just be told 'sorry you can't insure that yet'?

pip bip - choose Corrour > Cé hé sin 01/29/2015 at 07:06

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i pay about AUD$600 for a 4cyl Lancer

4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 01/29/2015 at 07:26

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The issue is I have three other vehicles OTR, and combined they cost me £1180 to insure per annum, and they're WAY more fun than a diesel Peugeot. Putting the Peugeot OTR as well will increase that premium by 40% for a vehicle that will get minimal use. I can't justify such an increase.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 01/29/2015 at 07:31

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That makes a bit more sense. It sounded like you were complaining about the cost of owning a diesel Peugeot, when it was really about the cost of owning the entire contents of your garage including the Peugeot, which to be honest on its own is pretty reasonable.

I own dead car brands only > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 01/29/2015 at 07:52

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I pay 1880 bucks a year to insure myself. In funny dollars, that is 1220 pounds. Twice yours.

Insurance is a necessary evil

BigBlock440 > Cé hé sin 01/29/2015 at 08:01

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That size? How small are vehicles in Ireland? A Ranger's only the size of a mid-size car.

4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 > Cé hé sin 01/29/2015 at 08:15

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I'm not complaining about the tax, £180 is pretty reasonable :)

4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 > pip bip - choose Corrour 01/29/2015 at 08:19

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Yeh that's possible. I suppose if I crash it, it's not worth repairing for less than £500 of my own money. Never had 3rd party before though

Cé hé sin > BigBlock440 01/29/2015 at 08:25

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The four litre engine would be the issue from the insurance point of view with a young driver, not so much the size of the vehicle itself. An insurer would assume that a young driver with a car powered by a four litre petrol engine would be a high risk.

Almost all cars - as anywhere else in Europe - are under 2 litres. Ford, for example, don't sell anything bigger than a 2.2 and that's a slow seller.Same applies to the other mass-market companies. Almost all BMWs from the 1 to the 5 series, are two litre diesel fours, as are Mercs.

Vans and pick ups are about 2.5 to 3 litres, diesel only, and almost always manual. Pick ups are all the size of a Hilux, the huge ones they have in America are almost unsaleable although some with a taste for that kind of thing import them personally.

BigBlock440 > Cé hé sin 01/29/2015 at 08:32

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Forgot about the engine size thing, it looked like you were inferring the Ranger was a big vehicle.

Cé hé sin > KnowsAboutCars 01/29/2015 at 08:32

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If you're that age you'd be more likely to have a vehicle supplied by your employer but as insurers charge extra if you're under 25 an employer may not be keen on a younger driver. Having so said it is possible - insurers don't like cars with larger engines because they associate the combination of that and a younger driver with high risk. Vans and pick ups aren't so much of an issue. A 2.2 litre diesel Transit isn't going to worry insurers as much as a four litre car.

Bear in mind hat third party insurance liability in Europe is by law unlimited (if, in the worst case scenario, you make a young person a paraplegic the claim against you could be several million and the policy will pay out all of that) and premia are calculated accordingly.

KirkyV > KnowsAboutCars 01/29/2015 at 10:25

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Tradesmen don't really use 'full-size' - what we'd call 'fucking gigantic' - pickups and so on in Europe. They're more likely to have Transits, Sprinters, Transporters and so on - dropsides if they need something with a bed - with insurer-friendly turbodiesels. Giant petrol-engine pickups and the like are only ever really imported by well-heeled individuals who fancy a taste of Americana, and don't mind not being able to fit down certain backroads—they're certainly not seen as actual, practical work vehicles.

KirkyV > 4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 01/29/2015 at 10:30

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Well then, the solution is obvious:

ST220 Estate. Practical and fun! (I would suggest a Peugeot - I drive a nineties Pug, and they're my overall favourite marque - but I don't think they've made a spicy estate since the seventies.)

...

(Also, I realise that the ST220 is in no way a practical solution to your problem. I just like them.)

KnowsAboutCars > KirkyV 01/29/2015 at 15:06

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I know, I'm from Europe after all. I was unsure if there was some kind of rule that would prevent fresh drivers to insure anything with over 2.0 litre engine or something.